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17/20T piston rings - modifying piston for villiers 197 rings

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17/20T piston rings - modifying piston for villiers 197 rings

Post  Cruiser79 on Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:21 pm

In twelve years of searching I have yet to turn up a set of rings in +.040 and have only ever found standard sizes.

I know that a villiers 197 like a 6E has the same bore as my 17T. I'm guessing its safe to say the villiers rings wouldn't be interchangeable with the AMC piston but has anyone ever tried? What issues arise? Are the villiers rings too thin or do the AMC ring lands need to be opened up on the lathe? Re-peg the lands etc? Can it be done, and have any of you done it before to shed any light?
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Ring difference

Post  piston 197 on Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:32 pm

Amc rings 59mm Dia. x 1/16" high x .096 radial depth
Villiers 197cc rings generally 59mm Dia. x 3/32" high x .083" radial depth
There is one set for Villiers/hepolite piston 16519 which is 1/16" high, but radial depth is only .083" and peg type is wrong

If it was that easy , I am sure it would have been done by now ? If I was going to do it , I would use the 3/32" rings so the groove could be machined out to correct width AND depth for these rings after removing the peg, and a correct type of peg could then be re-fitted to suit the Villiers 3/32" rings, lot of work and always the risk the peg is going to come out ?
JH
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Amc pistons

Post  kerabo on Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:40 am

Just something I found on another group.

Someone has just got a scrap piston and cut out sections to fit the gaps in the 17T piston ports and had them welded in with Tig. He then had it checked in a lathe although it was just a matter of cleaning the weld. Seems its running well.

Ken
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17T to 20T

Post  piston 197 on Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:53 am

Yes been done before, there is only one area to fill ( not gaps, just gap) which is the cutout in the back of the skirt which appears on 17T pistons up to engine No 3032, after 3032 the 17T and 20T engine used the same piston.
I have even heard of people turning the 17T piston around the other way so a full bottom skirt is offered up to the inlet port, but if this is done the ring pegs need moving to prevent snagging in the port.
This is fine, but what the original poster was asking was how difficult it would be to fit 59mm 197cc Villiers rings in an AMC piston as he has a piston, just no +040 rings ,which are the same for both 17T and 20T
JH
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Re: 17/20T piston rings - modifying piston for villiers 197 rings

Post  Cruiser79 on Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:59 pm

Thanks for that info JH. I'll do some head scratching and see if I can make something work. My piston is perfect and bore free from any damage although its got quite a bit of wear but just about usable. Rings are totally shot though, totally pointless refitting them after a full rebuild. I was also following the write up from the guy who welded up the skirt on the 17T piston, who knows maybe a lost hoard of rings and pistons will emerge on the market one of these days!
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Re: 17/20T piston rings - modifying piston for villiers 197 rings

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