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1964 4T villiers

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1964 4T villiers

Post  mattb31daytona on Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:58 pm

Dear all,

Can anyone point me in the right direction please.

Just looking at an ex Norfolk Police (pursuit bike !) complete with full original fairing,,,,,,it's 1964 Fanny B with 4T Villers engine no 726E 839 but there is no ignition kill switch key which inserts in top of the gearbox casing so impossible to check bikes real condition.

Can anyone advise whether it is possible to obtain key from the engine number and or the best place to source a key or alternatively best way to by pass the switch.

Matt
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Switch

Post  kerabo on Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:25 pm

Is there a small number stamped into the switch where the key fits.?

Otherwise you would have to bypass the switch.

I don't know on what system the switch works so can't say how to bypass it.

Ken
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64 4T ignition

Post  mattb31daytona on Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:40 pm

Ken,

Unfortunately no number stamped on outside of ignition key barrel - life would be so simple if there was. As I don't own bike can't start taking side case off which I assume would reveal the ignition barrel and allow a simple by pass of switch at the terminals - however I am unsure what else would need to be removed but I suspect the kick start spring and mechanisim and possibly some of gear arrangement.

Hopefully someone else has experienced the same problem and can offer guidance.

Also would be helpful to know in which direction the key turns on and off as currently the key hole slot is in line with the gear/engine case joint ........so is that on or off?

Further thing that comes to mind is whether I can get a free download of any manual for this engine.

Matt
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4T Switch

Post  MoscowFlyer on Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:23 pm

Hi Matt, if you look at the diagram you will see that you cannot by pass the switch by joining the wirers together, you could disconnect both and tape them off, or you may be able to disconnect them at the points? which would mean only taking off the contact breaker cover. Mike

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Re: 1964 4T villiers

Post  mattb31daytona on Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:34 pm

Mike,

Thanks for that info I think I get what you are saying.

Matt
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Missing Key

Post  kerabo on Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:45 am

Looking at that diagram it shorts both sets of points to earth, so an effective way of immobilising the engine.
As Mike says you would have to remove or snip these wires at the points.
Ken
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Villiers ignition and switching

Post  FB vincent on Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:37 am

mattb31daytona wrote:Dear all,

Can anyone point me in the right direction please.

Just looking at an ex Norfolk Police (pursuit bike !) complete with full original fairing,,,,,,it's 1964 Fanny B with 4T Villers engine no 726E 839 but there is no ignition kill switch key which inserts in top of the gearbox casing so impossible to check bikes real condition.

Can anyone advise whether it is possible to obtain key from the engine number and  or the best place to source a key or alternatively best way to by pass the switch.

Matt

As pointed out by others, it is not a 'kill switch' but a security device. Villiers S22 and S25 carburettors have no throttle stop, the throttle cable should be set so that the engine stops when the twist grip is completely closed.

The standard 2T/4T ignition system use AC ignition coils powered by the generator, so the switch merely earths the contact breakers. The battery does not provide the power for the coils, so there is no need for an ignition switch.

However, since your Cruiser 89 was supplied to the police force it is possible that it has the Villiers high output generator, this was fitted to power a radio/telephone, flashing beacon and possibly other non standard electrical equipment. The electrical switching system requires an additional Wipac switch in the headlamp shell, since in this case the DC ignition coils are powered from the battery; when the headlamp ignition switch is off the engine will stop. There is now a complication that if the Ignition switch on the headlamp is turned ON, and there is a crankcase switch set to earth, the battery will be quickly discharged and the coils possibly damaged! Unfortunately there does not seem to be any published information or an FB specific wiring diagram for these non standard bikes. My ex Yorkshire 4T engine police bike with high output generator had the earthing switch removed.

So first of all check which generator/wiring system you have. If you have the high output generator you will need a well charged battery to get an adequate spark. The engine prefix 726E is the same as my bike, so it probably does have the high output generator.

If you find that you have the standard generator, you can get a replacement switch from Villiers Services.

Send me a PM if you need any more detail information. There are some other surviving ex police Cruiser 89's.

Sandy Ross





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Check first

Post  piston 197 on Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:41 am

Firstly before snipping any wires , I would put a meter between the wires at the points and earth to determine whether the switch is in the ON of OFF position, or indeed connected at all ? Or at the least checking to see if the points are clean and whether there is a spark at the plug ?
JH
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4T info

Post  mattb31daytona on Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:36 pm

Sorry delay in responding system has been having a fit and had to relog in and keep requesting new password about ten times but finally in.

Thanks for all the info it certainly has given me lots of things to look at when I take another look at the bike - luckily it's current owner is a mate but due to health he cannot keep hold of it so hopefully next visit I will try and have a look at things but I am pretty sure it will turn out to be full police spec as suggested.

Amazing no decent wiring diagrams seem to be out there - lucky no rush as it will stay in mates garage till summertime.

Matt
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Re: 1964 4T villiers

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