Latest topics

New to the forum

View previous topic View next topic Go down

New to the forum

Post  wjohnknightley on Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:35 pm

I am new to the forum - so please be gentle with me. I have bought a Francis Barnett, Model
96. Can anyone help/confirm with it's ID.

The Frame Number is 196 742

The Engine Number is J16T 1198

Any info would be great,
Thanks John Knightley.

wjohnknightley

Posts : 8
Join date : 2016-11-25
Age : 76
Location : Newhaven, East Sussex

http://wjohnknightley@outlook.com

Back to top Go down

Identity

Post  piston 197 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:57 pm

John, you have one of the last model 96 Francis Barnetts, that were assembled at Bob Joyner's in Birmingham from the purchase of the James/FB stock at Greet after the factory closed.
The 16T engine was a variant of the 15T engine, it was originally made for the James Scooter, the "J" in front of the 16T is the clue to assembly at Joyners
The Frame No is I 96, ( not196) where the I is the year ( 1966) and the 96 is the model.
Joyners continued to assemble these machines after the factory closed in October 1966, so some are actually made as late as 1967, although still have" I" fame Nos as Joyners continued to assemble existing frames rather than use the next letter in the sequence.
Your bike would have been one of the last made at the factory ( or assembled later at Joyners) The highest frame No I have reference to is I96-782, some 40 frames later than yours, this machine is registered "D" reg 1966

John H
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Thanks Piston

Post  wjohnknightley on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:18 pm

Hi John H @ Piston,
Thanks for your very informative reply , I am gradually building up
a picture of the FB I have. It is very interesting, as I owned a FB when I was 21 (some 54
Years ago ), That one was RED with matching red quarter panniers, I believe they were
called Rodark panniers.

Thanks again for your reply, I will no doubt be back with more questions,

John K.

wjohnknightley

Posts : 8
Join date : 2016-11-25
Age : 76
Location : Newhaven, East Sussex

http://wjohnknightley@outlook.com

Back to top Go down

Red FB

Post  piston 197 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:21 pm

Red was an option circa 1959/60, bikes that were in this option had an "R" after the frame number
JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Thanks again

Post  wjohnknightley on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:31 pm

Hi John H @Piston 197,
A mine of information, the years for the Red FB sounds
about right! Unfortunately I sold it shortly after.

Thanks again.
John K.

wjohnknightley

Posts : 8
Join date : 2016-11-25
Age : 76
Location : Newhaven, East Sussex

http://wjohnknightley@outlook.com

Back to top Go down

Model 96

Post  FrankG on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:35 pm

Hi and welcome
I have 2 96s and 1 is Joyner bike like yours, is it still metalic light green. mine is but the other has been painted black.

Frank

FrankG

Posts : 36
Join date : 2015-10-11
Age : 62
Location : Alfreton Derbyshire

Back to top Go down

Thanks for your reply

Post  wjohnknightley on Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:49 am

Hi Frank G,
Thanks for your post glad you are also a FB 96 owner. My son Andy also
has a model 96, which is in immaculate condition, so I have some work and polishing to do!

Regards, JohnK.

wjohnknightley

Posts : 8
Join date : 2016-11-25
Age : 76
Location : Newhaven, East Sussex

http://wjohnknightley@outlook.com

Back to top Go down

Re: New to the forum

Post  Andy Knightley on Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:28 am

In response to my farther post, my model 96 has the frame number H96-384 and had v16t 302 engine fitted when I purchased it but alas the crankcase was damaged and I replaced it with one I believe to be from an earlier series circa 1960 the new number is V15t 1815. My bike was registered on 21/02/1966 and I believe still carries its original number, the bike is sprayed in Arden green, as I live less than ten miles from the ole Woolwich factory it is a piece of local history. I purchased this machine from a local source last year and would like to find out more about its history, can anyone help?
Regards, Andy

Andy Knightley

Posts : 17
Join date : 2016-11-14
Location : London

Back to top Go down

not so local

Post  piston 197 on Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:25 pm

The 2 strokes production was centred at Lower Ford St Coventry ( FB) and Greet ,Birmingham James (and FB from 1963)
Only the 4 strokes came from Woolwich. same ownership ( AMC)

John H
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Re: New to the forum

Post  Andy Knightley on Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:43 pm

Thank you piston197 I did not know that as local history in se London is not so local lately.
Andy

Andy Knightley

Posts : 17
Join date : 2016-11-14
Location : London

Back to top Go down

not sure ?

Post  piston 197 on Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:48 pm

Not sure what you mean ? I was suggesting that your Model 96  was not a piece of local history of Woolwich ?? as it was made in Greet , Birmingham
Maybe I read your post wrongly, you have me confused
I have explained my thinking by pointing out the AMC 2 strokes have nothing to do with Woolwich other than to be a part of the same Associated Motorcyles group that contained
Matchless/AJS, London/Plumstead/Woolwich
Norton Birmingham. woolwich
James Birmingham/Greet
Francis Barnett Coventry and later Birmingham/Greet

Obviously the AMC factory is still part of the history of the SE London, I thought you were saying your FB 96 was a part of local history of Wolwich and misunderstood what you were trying to say ??

John H
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Re: New to the forum

Post  Andy Knightley on Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:29 am

Hi John H ( piston 197) sorry what I was saying is that trying to find a se Londoner is very difficult as Woolwich has changed for the worst over the years, I did know that the factory was owned by amc but did not know what production moved and when, or to where, I meant that an amc machine has links to the area by association, I feel that it is important to keep these machines alive and their association to local areas less we forget our country's great heritage. As I said Woolwich is unrecognisable now to what it was, even the Arsenal is now flats with little reference to the great and important past it has.
Thank you for your time and knowledge it is all helping my farther and myself build a picture of the FBI 96's that we own, any more information would be very welcome.
Thank you,
Andy

Andy Knightley

Posts : 17
Join date : 2016-11-14
Location : London

Back to top Go down

AMC 2 stroke engines

Post  FB vincent on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:23 am

No doubt JH will correct me if I am wrong, but the AMC two stroke engines, including the 15T, were developed and manufactured at Plumstead in SE London. The 17T/20T/25T engines incorporated the Piatti patented porting system, but the 15T was a more straightforward design (although watch out for the anti-clockwise thread to the crankshaft end nut).

Allegedly Plumstead were unable to build the engines to the required tolerances for a 2 stroke, so the components were in later years (from 1962) assembled by Villiers at Wolverhampton.

No doubt the top men sitting on the AMC board in the late 1950's could not understand why they were paying Villiers to buy in engines, when they already had an engine manufacturing plant in London. In time, they paid a very high price for developing their own engines in loss of their previously good reputation and warranty payments. Sandy

FB vincent

Posts : 563
Join date : 2009-01-20
Location : Hertfordshire

Back to top Go down

agreed !

Post  piston 197 on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:53 am

Yes agree with the above post the 96 would have been made/assembled in Birmingham ( Greet) engine would have been assembled at Wolverhampton ( Villiers) or Joyner's ( Birmingham)
Electrics in Buckinghamshire Wico pacy ( Bletchley and Buckingham)
Carburettor Birmingham ( AMAL)
Wheels Birmingham ( British hub)
Wheel rims Birmingham ( Dunlop)
Administration and poor foresight ( SE London)
Tyres Birmingham and Melksham ( Dunlop and Avon)
Piston Bradford or Somerset ( Hepolite or Wellworthy)



JH


Last edited by piston 197 on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Re: New to the forum

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum