Latest topics
» Rechroming
Today at 6:14 am by kerabo

» Fulmar 88 or 90?
Today at 6:09 am by fulmar88

» Kestrel 69 fork seals take two.
Yesterday at 11:29 am by johnh

» AMC Carb manifold
Yesterday at 10:42 am by piston 197

» Opions sort on FB Cruiser 80 250cc as a rideable bike.
Yesterday at 8:30 am by casperboat

» NEW CLUB MEMBERS
Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:34 pm by casperboat

» AMC gudgeon pin removal
Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:35 pm by piston 197

» Hi from Barnsley, S Yorks, UK
Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:58 am by piston 197

» VILLIERS ENGINE
Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:58 am by MR SINBAD


Any Ideas?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Any Ideas?

Post  PeterW on Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:32 pm

Iím having real problems with my 10D engine. Have renewed all of the following: Points, plug, ignition coil, capacitor, piston rings, HT lead, low tension lead, plug cap, small end bearing, gudgeon pin, main bearings, main bearing gland seals & gland washers and silencer. Flywheel has been re-magnatised and the carb checked and re-set by V.S. Have also checked and re-checked the timing, points and plug gaps. All joints have also been smoothed, levelled and re-sealed. The exhaust pipe has been thoroughly cleaned inside.

Despite all this it refuses to start unless spun up with an electric drill, will only run at high revs, stalling as soon as the throttle is closed even towards half way and sometimes backfires through both the exhaust and the carb.

Have tried both advancing and retarding the timing without success. The plug colour is very dark brown/black but not sooty or oily so have not altered the needle height.

Any suggestions will be most welcome.

Thanks,

PeterW
avatar
PeterW

Posts : 77
Join date : 2014-09-26
Age : 67
Location : Kent UK-1953 Kestrel 66

Back to top Go down

starting problems

Post  piston 197 on Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:28 pm

The correct carb for the 10D is a 3/4 , needle setting is 2.41" of needle protruding below flat at bottom of the slide.
Your engine should be a 13D, but the carb is the same for both and is a brass bodied †carb, is this the one you have ? or has it also been changed to a S19 ?
Correct timing is 5/32" points just opening before TDC on the 10D, on the 13D it is 5/16" before TDC are you using the correct setting for the 10D ??
your symptoms sound like the timing is too far advanced, points opening too soon before TDC ?

if the timing is too far advanced engine will not run at low revs, if too retarded will not rev freely, your seems to run at high revs only, hence the suggestion the timing is way to far advanced ?
Ignore the arrow on the flywheel as you may not have the original flywheel fitted, set the timing with the points just breaking at 5/32" before TDC and mark the flywheel after with your own mark

JH


Last edited by piston 197 on Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3516
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Re: Any Ideas?

Post  banjo boy on Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:40 pm

Sounds to me a air leak ,have you checked to see if barrel and head are tight? Is the carb flange flat if not air can be drawn in, you can use wet/dry to flatten but make sure it is cleaned , is the plug correct grade?check out the fuel pipe is not blocked do you have a filter between tap and carb? That's all for now,hope you get it sorted soon

Laurence
avatar
banjo boy

Posts : 232
Join date : 2013-10-22
Age : 53
Location : cambridgeshire

Back to top Go down

Starting Problems

Post  PeterW on Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:28 pm

piston 197 wrote:The correct carb for the 10D is a 3/4 , needle setting is 2.41" of needle protruding below flat at bottom of the slide.
Your engine should be a 13D, but the carb is the same for both and is a brass bodied †carb, is this the one you have ? or has it also been changed to a S19 ?
Correct timing is 5/32" points just opening before TDC on the 10D, on the 13D it is 5/16" before TDC are you using the correct setting for the 10D ??
your symptoms sound like the timing is too far advanced, points opening too soon before TDC ?

JH

Thanks John. I always believed that my carb is a Villiers type 3/4 although itís not brass but aluminium bodied. (see pic.)


(see
pic)

PeterW
avatar
PeterW

Posts : 77
Join date : 2014-09-26
Age : 67
Location : Kent UK-1953 Kestrel 66

Back to top Go down

Any Ideas?

Post  PeterW on Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:02 pm

banjo boy wrote:Sounds to me a air leak ,have you checked to see if barrel and head are tight? Is the carb flange flat if not air can be drawn in, you can use wet/dry to flatten but make sure it is cleaned , is the plug correct grade?check out the fuel pipe is not blocked do you have a filter between tap and carb? That's all for now,hope you get it sorted soon

Laurence

Many thanks Laurence. I have completely stripped the engine and rebuilt it with all the items listed above. Have also (as you suggest) used wet and dry on a flat surface to clean up up all jointing faces before resealing with high temp silicon liquid gasket. Thatís why this issue is so frustrating! Thereís just the standard (new) gauze filter in the fuel line. Donít think there a blockage as the carb floods very well when tickled. Am using the plug recommended and supplied by Villiers Services so assume it is of the correct type.

Cheers,

PeterW
avatar
PeterW

Posts : 77
Join date : 2014-09-26
Age : 67
Location : Kent UK-1953 Kestrel 66

Back to top Go down

carburettor

Post  piston 197 on Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:22 am

It looks like a S19 to me, on the 3/4 there are 2 compensating tubes screwed in at the rear of the carb.
I don't doubt the S19 will work on this engine, but settings for the needle are a lot shorter 1.97" to 2.015" depending on the engine it is fitted to .
Have you been buying parts for a 3/4 carb and fitting them to this carb, because if you have the 3/4 needle in the s19 carb it will be miles too long and will give problems similar to you describe ?
send me a p.m with your email address and I will send you some pcs of a 3/4 carb
JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3516
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Carburettor

Post  PeterW on Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:51 am

piston 197 wrote:It looks like a S19 to me, on the 3/4 there are 2 compensating tubes screwed in at the rear of the carb.
I don't doubt the S19 will work on this engine, but settings for the needle are a lot shorter 1.97" to 2.015" depending on the engine it is fitted to .
Have you been buying parts for a 3/4 carb and fitting them to this carb, because if you have the 3/4 needle in the s19 carb it will be miles too long and will give problems similar to you describe ?
send me a p.m with your email address and I will send you some pcs of a 3/4 carb
JH

Thanks again John, haven't changed the needle as when VS checked my carb they said it looked fine. However, it does have the two little compensation tubes screwed in to the rear of the body.

Will PM you with email address for pics.

Cheers,

PeterW
avatar
PeterW

Posts : 77
Join date : 2014-09-26
Age : 67
Location : Kent UK-1953 Kestrel 66

Back to top Go down

carburettor

Post  piston 197 on Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:50 am

Then if it has got those 2 tubes it will be a 3/4, just was not aware of them being made with an alloy body ?
JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3516
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Carburettor

Post  PeterW on Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:33 am

Yep, definately has them - Will try to get a pic.

PeterW
avatar
PeterW

Posts : 77
Join date : 2014-09-26
Age : 67
Location : Kent UK-1953 Kestrel 66

Back to top Go down

Carburettor

Post  PeterW on Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:04 am

In this pic you can see one of the compensation tubes on my apparently aluminium bodied 3/4 carb:





Cheers,

PeterW
avatar
PeterW

Posts : 77
Join date : 2014-09-26
Age : 67
Location : Kent UK-1953 Kestrel 66

Back to top Go down

correct carb!

Post  piston 197 on Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:21 am

Then yes that is a 3/4
I quote
The lightweight 3/4 carb is used on the 10D engine, the needle is spring loaded, the smallest coil fitted under the head of the needle- and is located in the throttle slide. On original fitment a specially short 3% type is specified and the setting from the bottom of the slide is 2 13/32" ( 2.41") out. Make sure that the adjuster screw is in tension, it must not be loose that it can move voluntarily. If it does the spring can be gently prised apart to create tension. No provision is made for altering the size of the slide by way of different cutaways, nor is there any provision to vary the jet sizes.

So basically if you have the correct 3% needle and the distance is set at the specified amount then your carb should be set up correctly ?
JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3516
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Correct Carb

Post  PeterW on Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:28 am

Thanks again John - One more question: how do identify if itís the correct needle?

PeterW
avatar
PeterW

Posts : 77
Join date : 2014-09-26
Age : 67
Location : Kent UK-1953 Kestrel 66

Back to top Go down

needle

Post  piston 197 on Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:32 am

Sometimes there is a small 3 stamped near the top and some times it has 3 grooves, if it is after market there may be no id ? but if you can set it at 2.41" out from the bottom of the carb it must be somewhere near the correct length, this won't confirm the taper is correct, but will be a start !
JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3516
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Re: Any Ideas?

Post  PeterW on Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:30 pm

Convinced that Iíd sealed any potential air leaks Iíve spent weeks fiddling with and adjusting the timing and carb without success. Although the carb was clean and in very good condition for itís age, in desperation, I bought another 3/4 from a well known auction site. It wasnít in such good condition as mine but I stripped and cleaned it, soldered up a hole in the float and adjusted the needle to Villiers spec. After fitting to my bike it started second kick and runs like a dream compared to previously. Still canít see anything wrong with my original carb but there obviously is? Iím very pleased to say that the weeks of frustration are over - Many thanks to all who made suggestions for a fix in response to my earlier posts.

Cheers,

PeterW
avatar
PeterW

Posts : 77
Join date : 2014-09-26
Age : 67
Location : Kent UK-1953 Kestrel 66

Back to top Go down

Good news!

Post  FB vincent on Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:48 pm

Although I did not contribute to this thread, well done for giving an update to your problem. I do try and add what I can from my many years of FB experience, but so often we never hear whether the problem has been sorted. Great to hear that your FB is flying!

FB vincent

Posts : 559
Join date : 2009-01-20
Location : Hertfordshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Any Ideas?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum