Latest topics

6E Engine Problems

View previous topic View next topic Go down

6E Engine Problems

Post  MrTweedy on Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:44 pm

Hello all.
I'm in the process of getting a Villiers 6E engine running and have had some success so far but it's not running great.
Firstly, I've had the carb refurbished, the flywheel re-magnitised, fitted a brand new coil and installed a Bright Spark condenser chip. I'm getting a good spark and the engine starts quite easily. However, once started, the engine runs quite rough at low revs and backfires with smoke coming from the carb. I would have thought this was a timing issue but can't seem to sort it no matter how I set the timing.
Secondly, and again at low revs, if you give a bit of throttle then back off, the engine will continue to rev higher for a while longer, 5 or 10 seconds or so after shutting off the throttle.
I've got my 10D engine running really nicely now but the 6E is proving to be a bit trickier.

Any advice would be most welcome.

Regards

Matt
avatar
MrTweedy

Posts : 108
Join date : 2014-01-21
Location : East Lothian, Scotland. 1949 Francis Barnett Merlin. 1953 Ambassador Supreme. 1969 BSA Starfire (in bits).

Back to top Go down

Re: 6E Engine Problems

Post  Jack Clegg on Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:19 pm

Backfiring thru carb is timing for sure. But the revving sounds like carb. Double trouble?
avatar
Jack Clegg

Posts : 361
Join date : 2012-11-12
Age : 54
Location : Marlow

http://jackclegg.com

Back to top Go down

Funny running...

Post  john87 on Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:36 pm

Air leak on inlet side?? Crank seals???

john..

john87

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-10-24

Back to top Go down

Poor running

Post  kerabo on Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:46 pm

Have you set the carb needle to the base setting to start with. Does it start easy or need choke?
It does sound like its weak or drawing air.
What's this condenser chip?
Can you try without it.

Ken
avatar
kerabo

Posts : 2019
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

Back to top Go down

Re: 6E Engine Problems

Post  MrTweedy on Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:00 pm

Hello. Thanks for your help so far.
The Brightspark replaces the condenser, so I can't try without it. They are great though, I have one in my Merlin and it works a treat.
The engine will start fine but seems to run better with the air filter in the closed position. That led me to think it was perhaps drawing air somewhere.
I notice there is quite a bit of oily muck on the frame and engine casing near where the exhaust exits the cylinder, I've tightened the finned exhaust ring as much as I can.
avatar
MrTweedy

Posts : 108
Join date : 2014-01-21
Location : East Lothian, Scotland. 1949 Francis Barnett Merlin. 1953 Ambassador Supreme. 1969 BSA Starfire (in bits).

Back to top Go down

Engine problems

Post  kerabo on Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:15 pm

That does sound weak.
I don't know the setting on the 6E but there is a base setting for the carb needle. Check its not down too far. I think the 9E was something like 1 9/10"
Ken
avatar
kerabo

Posts : 2019
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

Back to top Go down

Funny running...

Post  john87 on Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:36 pm

It will never run right with the exhaust blowing... Get a new sealing ring and then try again.. Not saying it will cure it, but you have to sort known faults before you try to trace unknown ones!!

john..

john87

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-10-24

Back to top Go down

Poor running

Post  kerabo on Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:20 pm

Well there you go. If the carb has been rebuilt it would be the first thing I would check.
I have run bikes with no exhaust in fact we have a member whose exhaust us always falling off and apart from the noise it runs fine.
Let us know what cures it.
Ken
Ken
avatar
kerabo

Posts : 2019
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

Back to top Go down

Slight Improvement

Post  MrTweedy on Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:55 pm

I've checked and adjusted the needle height, adjusted the flywheel timing again and it seems to be a bit better, less backfiring. It'll fly along once the revs are up but at low revs, particularly when changing from 1st to 2nd, it sounds like its misfiring. As soon as the revs build up again, it's fine.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions so far.

Matt
avatar
MrTweedy

Posts : 108
Join date : 2014-01-21
Location : East Lothian, Scotland. 1949 Francis Barnett Merlin. 1953 Ambassador Supreme. 1969 BSA Starfire (in bits).

Back to top Go down

Poor running

Post  kerabo on Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:06 pm

Matt
While your riding play with the choke and see if it improves. You can gauge weak or rich by playing with the choke and also turn of the fuel and if it clears just before it stops then it's a bit rich.
Just out of interest are the main bearings without play on the flywheel side.
Ken
avatar
kerabo

Posts : 2019
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

Back to top Go down

Some improvement

Post  MrTweedy on Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:36 pm

So I've been tinkering away for an hour or so and things have improved somewhat, but I'm getting this high-ish revving for few seconds after I've shut the throttle off then it'll slowly die if I don't rev it again. Trying to work out why it's continuing to rev after closing off the throttle. Does it sound like an air leak or just a tuning issue?

Matt
avatar
MrTweedy

Posts : 108
Join date : 2014-01-21
Location : East Lothian, Scotland. 1949 Francis Barnett Merlin. 1953 Ambassador Supreme. 1969 BSA Starfire (in bits).

Back to top Go down

Problems

Post  kerabo on Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:47 pm

I have had this when my bike Not a Barnett had a worn slide but as your has been rebuilt so it should be ok.
I know the Villiers carb is a very simple efficient thing but I hate an engine the don't idle. I know you can adjust the cable but it can vary when you turn the steering.
So has your cable got enough slack? Is the top secure. There are no holes in the top where another cable should be? Has it got the adaptator to the head or cast in one bit, if it has is the joint good?

Regards Ken
avatar
kerabo

Posts : 2019
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

Back to top Go down

Re: 6E Engine Problems

Post  MrTweedy on Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:10 pm

Hello Ken.

I prefer an engine to idle too, but this one just sounds wrong. I fired up my Merlin and it just put puts away quite happily. The 6E (it's in an Ambassador Supreme..it's not an FB...don't tell anyone!) will start fine but dies down a bit when you open the throttle and continues to rev after the throttle is closed.

The carb is fine, no cracks, no holes, nothing looks wrong or out of place, cable is fine.... Just can't seem to find the issue.

Matt
avatar
MrTweedy

Posts : 108
Join date : 2014-01-21
Location : East Lothian, Scotland. 1949 Francis Barnett Merlin. 1953 Ambassador Supreme. 1969 BSA Starfire (in bits).

Back to top Go down

Poor running

Post  kerabo on Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:30 pm

Have you adjusted the mixture screw at all.
Failing that bring it to the AGM

Ken
avatar
kerabo

Posts : 2019
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

Back to top Go down

Re: 6E Engine Problems

Post  MrTweedy on Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:59 am

I've tried that, Ken. Not much difference.

After tinkering for a couple of hours yesterday, I discovered that if have the throttle cable adjuster/idling speed on the top of the carb to high, it'll rev much more after the throttle is closed. If I adjust it until it doesn't rev, then it wont idle at all. I know that there those who say that 2 strokes aren't meant to idle, but I prefer that to constantly blipping the throttle. Is there another way to adjust the carb that will raise the idling speed without adjusting the cable?

Thanks for your help. This motorcycle is my wife's first classic bike and I'm trying to make it as user friendly as possible as she's used to riding a Honda Fireblade!

Regards

Matt
avatar
MrTweedy

Posts : 108
Join date : 2014-01-21
Location : East Lothian, Scotland. 1949 Francis Barnett Merlin. 1953 Ambassador Supreme. 1969 BSA Starfire (in bits).

Back to top Go down

Engine problems

Post  kerabo on Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:42 pm

Hi Matt
I don't own anything with a Villiers carb on. I have my moped so it just idles bad will slow and eventually stop if you don't touch the throttle. I am sure I read that someone made a throttle stop but don't know any more about it.
Sounds like your getting there.

Ken
avatar
kerabo

Posts : 2019
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

Back to top Go down

Further tinkering...

Post  MrTweedy on Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:41 pm

Spent a bit more time tinkering with this engine and the only way i can get it to tick over steadily it to close the air filter completely.  Open it up a bit and it dies within a few moments.  Seems to work fine when I'm riding the bike with the air filter at about halfway open , just seems to be unhappy at low revs.  Could this mean it's drawing air from somewhere else or is it a tuning issue?  

Any ideas what I can try next, anyone?

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Matt
avatar
MrTweedy

Posts : 108
Join date : 2014-01-21
Location : East Lothian, Scotland. 1949 Francis Barnett Merlin. 1953 Ambassador Supreme. 1969 BSA Starfire (in bits).

Back to top Go down

Poor running

Post  kerabo on Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:49 am

Matt
Since you fitted that carb have you made any adjustments to the main needle and the mixture screw. It seems weak.
I know the carb was rebuilt but I would be double checking some of its parts and settings.
Ken
avatar
kerabo

Posts : 2019
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

Back to top Go down

carburettor type

Post  piston 197 on Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:54 am

Excuse my ignorance, but shouldn't the 6E engine be using the two lever4/5 carb where the needle position is varied by a choke control lever on the handlebars ?? raised for choke ( rich) and lowered for weaker ( normal running) all this adjustment of needle length should relate to the S25 carb as does the choke flap/air filter arrangement.
You seem to be getting advice from people who seem to think the needle is fixed at a set length for the 6E ?? it is not, now it is possible you have the incorrect carb fitted to your 6E, suggest fitting the correct carb.
if you look in the back of the "villiers singles and twins" book it gives 1.95" needle set difference for the 7,8,and 9E fitted with the S25 carb, but for the 6E it does not give a figure, because THERE IS NOT ONE! , it uses the two lever 4/5 carb with cable operated needle length adjustment and no choke flap on the carburettor .
JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Re: 6E Engine Problems

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum