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8E Bore Size

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8E Bore Size

Post  Brentis1 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:27 am

Hi guys,

JH gave me a hand yesterday and helped identify that I have a Villiers 8E engine in my 1954 Facon.

Today I removed the head, barrel, and piston. Everything is incredibly well worn Shocked

I am going to measure the barrel and piston/ring tomorrow. Does anyone know what the original bore diameter was so we can determine if she has been rebored.

Nearly fell over when we saw the slop in the little end bushing and have a little vertical movement in bottom end so looks like we need to split the crankcase and rebuild. Does anyone happen to have a procedure on how this should be done?

Thanks in advance!

Brent

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bore size

Post  piston 197 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:33 am

STD bore size of a Villiers 8E engine is 59mm ( piston will be smaller than this as clearance is on the piston, measured at bottom of skirt at 90 Deg to pin STD piston will be approx. 58.86mm if unworn)
JH
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piston 197
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Re: 8E Bore Size

Post  Brentis1 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:09 pm

Thanks JH!

Great to have someone that clearly knows all the ins and outs of these girls.

I hope not to annoy you too much!

FYI - At the same time I inherited the 1954 Falcon I also received a 1962 FB Fulmar (This has a 150AMC engine on board). It will receive the same attention after I have finished the Falcon.

Both bikes were running when I received them although the Fulmar is in much better condition and operation than the Falcon. Out of interest - can you happen to recommend the best replacement rear shocks (or if the originals are still available). The original right rear shock is bent and this is the only thing that would stop the bike being roadworthy.

Cheers

Brent

Cheers

Brent

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reaf shocks

Post  piston 197 on Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:31 am

The trouble is the rear shocks available now are fatter than the original FB ones and foul unless they are spaced out, but NJB shock absorbers have rebuilt existing ones using modern internals, proprietor is Norman Blakemore ,it might be worth contacting him, you will find NJB if you google it
JH
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Re: 8E Bore Size

Post  Brentis1 on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:47 am

Hi guys,

I measured the bore size of my 8e Villiers 197cc. It measured up at 59.45mm. Can someone let me know if this 1st or 2nd oversize. I need to order pistons and rings and want to get the right size😀 The bore is in great nick.

Thanks in advance.

Brent

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Bore size

Post  piston 197 on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:52 am

59.45mm is approx. +020"
Pistons were available in +010,+015,+020,+030,+040,+060 and are now available even bigger !
suggest you get a +040 as to clean up to +030 you are relying on just .005" per side and it may not clean up fully
JH
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Re: 8E Bore Size

Post  Brentis1 on Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:09 am

Hi JH,

Thanks so much for the help.

Will using +40 piston and rings be ok without doing anything to the bore? I was hoping to leave bore as is - just a bit of a deglaze (2000 grit wet and dry in Criss cross pattern followed by a good flush out with petrol to remove any grit in bore).

Sorry bit of a 2 stroke novice😀

Also what oil to fuel mix would you recommend for Facon and fulmar with modern two stroke oil. I am using 25/1 and 30/1 respectively.

Cheers

Brent

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?????????

Post  piston 197 on Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:21 am

Obviously a +040 ( 60.014mm bore size) piston will not go into a +020 bore which should be 59.507mm , which confuses me when you said your bore is 59.45mm ?? so is either an undersize +020 or a worn out +015 ??
Which is why I advised getting a +040 piston , not realising you did not have the Knowledge to come to the conclusion it would require a rebore to fit the new piston.
Fitting a new piston into a used worn bore is not impossible, but is a fool's errand as it will never be as good as a new piston in a re-bored barrel
JH
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Re: 8E Bore Size

Post  Brentis1 on Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:25 am

Thanks JH - clear as day now!

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Re: 8E Bore Size

Post  Stevejoyce on Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:56 pm

Hi there I am on a similar position and split the crankcase a last weekend to get the crank out to send it off to Villiers services for a recon one.
I took the engine out. Removed flywheel cover. Used hammertite spanner to self extract the flywheel. (You really need one of those tools as they also fit the bolt holding the clutch casing on).
I undid 2 long screws on the left hand end of the upper and lower lighting coils, and four shorter screws in the centre of the circular plate. That then pulls away and you can see the oil deal for the crank which will no doubt be hard and not oil tight.
Then other side of engine and undoing big nut and remove the clutch cover. A bit of oil should seep out.
Undo nut holding clutch and engine nut and you should be able to prise off clutch and engine sprocket and chain as one. Don't lose key on drive shaft or clutch ish rod.
Undo four head bolts and remove head.
Undo four cylinder base nuts and gently lift cylinder
barrel away from piston taking care not to snag piston rings.
Then I do numerous nuts and bolts that hold crank cases together and there's one but on its own that can get missed. Seperate the halves gently tapping with a soft headed hammer and do not prise apart with a screwdriver. You then have a crank with two bearings on one side one on the other and another knackered oil seal. Tap out bearing from one casing with a suitable sized socket. No great force needed.
With regard to the two bearings on the crank you might
Need to use a bit of heati put a nut back on the threaded end of the crank and held the bearing whilst tapping the end of the crank with a soft faced hammer. I now have a piece of carpet with a villiers 8e jigsaw on it in my garage.
If you get stuck leave a message as I am in the middle of doing mine. To be fair my crank was extremely worn but still running.
No doubt others will mention the bits I've missed out !
Regards
Stevefromleicester

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Re: 8E Bore Size

Post  Brentis1 on Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:52 am

Hi JH and Steve,

Just wanted to say thanks for your help on this one.

Have reassembled the engine with new bearings, seals, pistons, conrod, and rebore. It runs like an absolute dream and so much more crisp than when running previously.

Very simple engines!

Cheers

Brent

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Re: 8E Bore Size

Post  Stevejoyce on Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:41 am

Pleased to hear you have sorted the bike out.
Thats one more FB back on the road !!

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Re: 8E Bore Size

Post  Brentis1 on Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:01 am

Once this one is finished I have a Fulmar 88 to do. The smell of two stroke is filling my shed😀

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Re: 8E Bore Size

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