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1927 Super Sports Model 9 - Kick start gear problem

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1927 Super Sports Model 9 - Kick start gear problem

Post  HardyMG on Sat May 14, 2016 10:01 pm

Dear fellow Francis Barnett enthusiasts

I am new to the forum and have just recently  purchased an extremely original 1927 172cc Model 9 (rear brake only model) which has never been restored, is 100% complete and was last running on the road in 1935

I have a couple of questions I am hoping fellow enthusiasts may be able to help me with. I have managed to get the bike running today for the first time, taking about 7 mins following all the usual checks. It has been in storage for some long time.  However, I have found that the kick start has stopped biting, and seems to feel like it may be riding its gear. Does anyone have any tips for me on how to tackle the issue. I have some engineering knowledge as I make parts for pre-war MGs but this bike is all a bit new to me. I tried taking the aluminium cover plate off the Albion gearbox but suspected the job is a little more involved so I though I should re-assemble and ask the vintage experts amongst you!

Secondly, my bike has 3.00 x 19 tyres on it although the front one is tight on the forks. I need to purchase new tyres so any advice is very much appreciated. I plan to run this Model 9 as is, as it is a piece of history trapped in time and it would spoil this bike's originality if I restored it.

Kind regards

Richard

HardyMG

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gearbox

Post  piston 197 on Sun May 15, 2016 5:51 am

There are really no tips for this situation, it will be a matter of dismantling and replacing worn parts, sounds like there is a worn ratchet pawl on the k/starter mechanism or gear teeth damage, and until you get inside you will not know which ?
The model 9 was originally specified with 3" wide tyres, it is possibly a later , more modern tyre is slightly wider in profile to the original specification as is sometimes the case, perhaps a change to a 2.75" section on the front may give the necessary clearance ??
JH
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Re: 1927 Super Sports Model 9 - Kick start gear problem

Post  HardyMG on Sun May 15, 2016 7:39 am

Many thanks JH, I will drip it down. I do see the cove has a trace of white silicone around it so maybe this has been a known problem in the past 10 years as the previous owner only had the bike 6 years and never touched it.

Richard

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kick starter problems

Post  ariel49 on Sun May 15, 2016 6:32 pm

Anybody who can machine up parts to keep pre-war MG's running should have no trouble doing this repair. As I read your letter, I was reminded of a Farmall Super M which appeared at our door one morning with a terrible noise coming from the transmission in 5th gear. For those who don't know, the Farmalls until the last used a non synchro-non constant mesh box. Locally called "A crash and bash" box. It didn't help any that fourth gear maxed out at 6 1/2 Mph, and fifth would run up to 18 mph. I had visions of pulling the whole works down in order to put in a new fifth gear. Oh no, my boss said. "Watch and learn" I was told. He built up banks of carbon on either side of the of the missing gear, dammed up the two ends and used a carbon arc torch attachment on the Lincoln 220v arc welder to build up new steel where the tooth had been. Then I filed it to fit really well and "A trifle loose". The he applied a thin coating of powdered stellite to the new tooth. We ran it-soundless. Success. Then I was informed I had the hardest part of the job - fishing around in the box with a cow's stomach magnet to find the missing tooth. Took a half hour, but I got it. Smile
HardyMG wrote:Dear fellow Francis Barnett enthusiasts

I am new to the forum and have just recently  purchased an extremely original 1927 172cc Model 9 (rear brake only model) which has never been restored, is 100% complete and was last running on the road in 1935

I have a couple of questions I am hoping fellow enthusiasts may be able to help me with. I have managed to get the bike running today for the first time, taking about 7 mins following all the usual checks. It has been in storage for some long time.  However, I have found that the kick start has stopped biting, and seems to feel like it may be riding its gear. Does anyone have any tips for me on how to tackle the issue. I have some engineering knowledge as I make parts for pre-war MGs but this bike is all a bit new to me. I tried taking the aluminium cover plate off the Albion gearbox but suspected the job is a little more involved so I though I should re-assemble and ask the vintage experts amongst you!

Secondly, my bike has 3.00 x 19 tyres on it although the front one is tight on the forks. I need to purchase new tyres so any advice is very much appreciated. I plan to run this Model 9 as is, as it is a piece of history trapped in time and it would spoil this bike's originality if I restored it.

Kind regards

Richard

ariel49

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Join date : 2016-04-26

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Model 9 Kick Start Problem Revisited

Post  HardyMG on Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:19 pm

I have now ascertained the problem on the kick start issue to this 1927 Albion 3 Speed Model E JS 297 gearbox. There are two threads at the end of the main shaft in the gearbox, the one right on the end takes the anti-clockwise threaded shaft retaining nut. The next one along the shaft is a slightly larger diameter thread to take the serrated dog nut which mates with the sliding kick-start gear.

The larger thread taking the dog nut has stripped. The dog nut is made of hardened steel however so this is fine. This seems a rather poor element of engineering design and looks like it was asking to be problematic!

Can anyone advise if new shafts are available for the 1927 Model E gearbox, or does anyone have a good second hand one available for purchase. I would prefer to go down this route than the metal spraying route.

I also note that the gearbox case cover plate has a hairline crack in it around the main shaft ball race housing area and, the clutch lever casting has also been poorly repaired in the past too. I am thinking of raking out and welding the main casting to add some strength to the crack area and, also may make a pattern to have a new clutch finger housing re-casting at my local foundry. If anyone has any spares however, especially, a replacement main shaft then very much appreciated.

Within the clutch mechanism, there are some fibre triangular blocks. Does anyone know if these are available or what modern material will offer a substitute?

In addition, I note there is a felt seal incorporated within the gearbox casing at the drive end. Can anyone recommend where to get a replacement felt seal or, can lip seals now be fitted? Also, what is the best oil for these gearboxes?

Any assistance with source of parts for this box and any other advice is very much appreciated.

Lastly, does anyone have an copy of a Model 5 and Model 9 Super Sports manual they would be able to email to me??

We have also just recently purchased a 1925 Model 5, just to keep the Model 9 company and we hope to have both oily rag bikes back on the road very shortly.

Kind regards

Richard


Last edited by HardyMG on Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:04 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : added commentary)

HardyMG

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