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Falcon 87 new owner

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Falcon 87 new owner

Post  Bighair on Sat May 07, 2016 6:24 pm

Hi
I am a new owner of a Falcon 87 , just completed the process of joining the club waiting now for the membership No etc.

I am have 1 or 2 issues nothing that can not be sorted , need to get parts book and manual.
I have be a little cheeky and sent a PM (as a non member do not know if it worked) to one of the forum members (Ted Snook) local to me asking for a help regarding rear wheel spacers and to quiz him about 87's ,hopefully he will be ok with me asking.

The bike was purchased from Chicken6552 he had not had it long , but did state the engine had been rebuilt by Tony Hill does anyone know of him ?

Did this bike previously belong to a forum or club member.
I am just trying to find out as much history as I can with out taking too much of the bike to bits to confirm what work had been carried out.

Also what is the top speed and cruising speed of the 87 , it just seems that on the ride home slow-ish  speeds to start off with then let her rip !!!!!!!!!!! after half throttle ( I mean volume control) not a lot happens apart from get louder (induction noise etc).
Hills and wind seem to have a big effect more than I would have thought.

Hope to get her indoors out on it as well sometime when I am happy as is well with it.
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Bighair

Posts : 17
Join date : 2016-05-07
Location : Kempston

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Re: Falcon 87 new owner

Post  Ted Snook on Sun May 08, 2016 12:59 pm

Hi Bighair,

I usually cruise, at least to start with, around 45, but this usually creeps up to a little over 50.  I try to cruise where the engine feels smoothest, and it will go up to 60 on the flat, but I have never flattened it.  It's more or less OK at A Road speeds, and although, traffic does come by, they are often speeding to do so.
The motor is fairly flexible where hills are concerned.  As the speed drops on main road hills, I just open the throttle more and don't change down unless it drops under 40ish - lots of induction roar, but it just seems to dig in and slog, although I never let it labour.
When I get my switch wiring sorted, it will be good for longer trips.  Mechanically it's spot on, but those Wipac switches are perished now and have given me problems.
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Ted Snook

Posts : 143
Join date : 2012-01-16
Location : Newport Pagnell

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New member

Post  kerabo on Sun May 08, 2016 3:12 pm

Hi Tony
I have sent you your membership number on an email so you can fully use the forum. The rest is in the post.
As far as manuals go we are without a Liberian for a shot while do to the sad passing of that member.We hope to start to process manuals very soon. I am passing all the equipment onto a new Liberian next weekend.
If you need to know anything about you Falcon 87 just ask and someone will help.
I have the road test on one and someone claimed to have touched 80 but I can see that happening. Mine has been to 65 . The AMC has a bad name but I can't fault mine. It never fails to start no matter how long I Leave it.

Regards Ken Booth
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kerabo

Posts : 2184
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

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FB 87 Falcon

Post  FB vincent on Sun May 08, 2016 7:05 pm

Excessive noise may be a blown or missing sealing ring between the silencer and the exhaust downpipe.

The FB sales material of the time stated that the 'Falcon will cruise effortlessly between 45 and 55 mph, with a substantial reserve for riding two up'. However, in today's world of the trades description act, etc, I am not sure that this claim would be acceptable. However, under favourable conditions the 20T engine should manage 60 mph.

FB vincent

Posts : 605
Join date : 2009-01-20
Location : Hertfordshire

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Noise

Post  Bighair on Sun May 08, 2016 8:33 pm

Exhaust is ok mainly induction after 1/2 throttle it seems that the twist grip is more of a volume control. oh and vibration control.
Popped over to see Ted in Newport had look round his 87 and he took some measurements (thanks Ted nice guy) as I am not HP with the rear wheel position in the arm , when I got it I undid the l/h spindle nut and the arm moved a good 10-15mm away from the brake plate.
I have changed a few things again today using washers still not convinced it is right .
Also how does the speedo drive come off  I thought undo inner nut and it would slide off no seems not.
Also does the rear spindle fit in one way I ask because I have more thread outside of the arm on the r/h side than the l/h.
It all started because the brake plate knocks/move under application and it does not sit in the anchor fully in or close with a small clearance nothing looks modified.
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Bighair

Posts : 17
Join date : 2016-05-07
Location : Kempston

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Rear wheel

Post  kerabo on Sun May 08, 2016 8:41 pm

It's been ages since I put mine together but The speedo drive comes off once the nut is removed. The felt seal may be hard and holding it. The important thing is that the wheel is central. Check you have a spacer under the brake plate and I am not 100% sure but there may be a washer as well that would put the brake plate deeper into the anchor.
If you don't get it sorted I will scan the page from the parts book although that's not that clear.

Ken
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kerabo

Posts : 2184
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

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R Wheel

Post  Bighair on Sun May 08, 2016 10:20 pm

Thanks Ken
I have found a parts diagram with some sizes on and I have put a washer between internal spacer and b plate but have not ridden it yet , but the brake plate still knocks when you spin the wheel on application .
I can get to not do it but then the wheel is all the way across to brake plate side by spacing out the r/h side.
I have centralize the brakes shoes as well this helps with the pedal feel and braking force every time I have pulled it apart.
When you look at your brake anchor lug how much of a gap is there between the lug and s/arm ?

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Bighair

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Join date : 2016-05-07
Location : Kempston

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Brake anchor

Post  kerabo on Mon May 09, 2016 6:40 am

If it's been loose you may have worn parts . It needs to slide for when you adjust the wheel. That is a bad thing because as the brake anchor rotates it has the affect of self applying the brake. It's normaly the fronts that do this. With all of the inner nuts firmly tightened it should be stiff enough to stay where you put it.
I will look at mine later and see how much gap it has .
Regards Ken
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kerabo

Posts : 2184
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

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Front wheel

Post  Bighair on Mon May 09, 2016 12:54 pm

Today I turned my attention to the front end , the wheel in particular , it took bl---y ages to get out .
Once out I cleaned everything up including the clamping slugs and found out that the spindle nut must have some damaged thread further in because they used a washer on the outside of the spindle and a spacer between the fork and hub on the inside.
I do not have a tap to clean /re-thread the nut so it has gone back as it came apart.
So I am now on the look out for a least a front spindle nut or complete axle and nut if anyone has one to sell or knows of one.
Front brake does not seem to knock as bad as it did on brake application , but I would like to get it back to somewhere near right .
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Bighair

Posts : 17
Join date : 2016-05-07
Location : Kempston

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spindle and nut

Post  piston 197 on Mon May 09, 2016 2:04 pm

Not sure about the spindle, but Andrew engineering have the spindle nut as they are used on the Matchless G2 models.
The club ( me) have the earlier type nuts for the pre 1960 fixed spindle, but these are slightly shorter than the knock out spindle type used on the 87, which is possibly why there is a washer there to make up the difference, if a previous owner has used one of the earlier nuts ?
Google Andrew engineering and you will find them

JH
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piston 197
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Falcon 87 Brake Plate Anchors

Post  kerabo on Mon May 09, 2016 2:32 pm

I looked at mine (rear) and it has about 2mm gap before it bottoms in the slot. Remember that no matter what you do to the back plate and spacers it cant go in any deeper than the inner nut will let it. So the depth of the nut and the washer on the outside of the brake plate will determine how far it goes into that groove.

The front ones are the ones that are normally a problem and I have seen several with a very small threaded hole and a grub screw to take out the play and stop the brake plate rotating backwards, sounds cheap but works well.

The special nut that is on the brake plate side (front) goes into a recess on the deep inner nut providing its fitted the correct way round. When tight the brake plate is pulled into the fork groove to stop it turning. On the other side the long bolt should be free to centralise your forks and will only lock when you tighten the lower mudguard brackets and put the wedges in onto the bolt to lock it. You did find the two wedges?
Somewhere I have a tap and a Dia for those spindles.

I get the feeling your expecting handlebar wrenching performance from this. Your in for a shock. small lanes and quiet roads you won't get better but if you want to ride 2 up and keep up with today's traffic you have the wrong bike.

Regards Ken
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kerabo

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Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 67
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

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forks

Post  Bighair on Mon May 09, 2016 5:08 pm

"You did find the two wedges?"
Yes Ken found them I called them slugs cleaned them up and I did measure the inside of the spindle nut and thought it should have gone in further than it does.
On the performance side of things I was hoping for a little more than it gives, but I am not cruel to it as it nearly as old as me but the vibes seem a bit harsh ,again maybe I am expecting too much !! Maybe I need to ride another to see what differences there are, (gearbox is sweet)

But it had rebuilt engine ? I may well strip it and recheck everything.Got a gsk kit coming.
But the guy I got it from did not have it done it must have be the guy before him /who knows.
Or maybe I need to get a FB Twin but it is a nice looking little bike.
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Bighair

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Join date : 2016-05-07
Location : Kempston

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Falcon 87

Post  kerabo on Mon May 09, 2016 5:44 pm

Don't be too quick to pull it apart. Mine rattles and has for 6 years. I think the fact it has a head stay to the frame under the tank may make things sound worse. They also have a strange shaped piston top and head and this may make some sounds.
If its been stood a long while you can fit crankcase seals with the engine in place. I would be inclined to ride it and see how it goes. Yes a very nice gearbox. My clutch always feels on the point of slipping but never does.
Regards Ken
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kerabo

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Join date : 2008-02-11
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Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

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FB Falcon

Post  FB vincent on Mon May 09, 2016 9:15 pm

kerabo wrote:Hi Tony
I have sent you your membership number on an email so you can fully use the forum. The rest is in the post.
As far as manuals go we are without a Liberian for a shot while do to the sad passing of that member.We hope to start to process manuals very soon. I am passing all the equipment onto a new Liberian next weekend.
If you need to know anything about you Falcon 87 just ask and someone will help.
I have the road test on one and someone claimed to have touched 80 but I can see that happening. Mine has been to 65 . The AMC has a bad name but I can't fault mine. It never fails to start no matter how long I Leave it.

 Regards Ken Booth

Yes, a speed of 80 mph is pure fantasy, or a hopelessly inaccurate speedometer.

A 'Motor Cycle' mag road test in June 1961 of the 20TS engined James Sports Captain claimed a one way maximum of 71 mph, but this bike had a lowered profile and an allegedly tuned engine.  

I do remember a glorious summer day on the Falcon 87 many years ago travelling south on the M1 from Northampton to Redbourn with a tailwind, at a speed never less than 60.

As Ken says, don't go taking the 20T engine seriously to bits until you know what you are doing. The rings are very narrow and easily broken; however, you can get a good idea of what is going on by taking the cylinder head off and checking the bore, while removing the exhaust pipe will enable you to check the rings.


FB vincent

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Join date : 2009-01-20
Location : Hertfordshire

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Engine

Post  Bighair on Mon May 09, 2016 9:54 pm

Thanks for the comments and info.

You all are good source of knowledge and experience and help regarding the 87 , I am sure it will become the bike it should be.  Just may take a little more time and effort.

I would have no problems rebuilding the unit. ( just a lack of product knowledge/info on the FB AMC unit) I will get a parts book etc.

I don't think it rattles excessively just the lack of relative go after 1/2 throttle - I have not done an inspection of the carb yet  it may be running to rich ,so a check of the internals of the carb may be in order  but it starts with ease.

It has a small leak from the primary cover underneath which someone tried to cure by smearing silicon sealer overlapping the joining area and outer cover and inner one ,so that needs to be addressed. also there was similar on the other side. Minor things but need to be done.


Can I ask when doing the ign timing do you use a tdc gauge through the plug hole or do you do it with the cylinder head off due to the angle ,what distance BTDC due you use I have see varying figures is one 5/16.
Any suggestions welcome.

Also is there any info/pages on the site about each model regarding bearing sizes - spacer -common parts ?
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Bighair

Posts : 17
Join date : 2016-05-07
Location : Kempston

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So far so good

Post  Bighair on Sun May 15, 2016 5:29 pm

So I have been playing with it and riding it done about 100 miles so far , a short little 10 mile 2 up run today.
And it has been fun so far.
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Bighair

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Location : Kempston

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AMC

Post  kerabo on Sun May 15, 2016 5:47 pm

The timing varies a little depending on what you read. You may get it to run a little sweeter but don't expect too much. As I said these don't have the normal 2 stroke power band the power line is straight. Make it buzz before you change up.
Have you got my guide for rebuilding the power unit and gearbox. The timing is in that.

Ken
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kerabo

Posts : 2184
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Age : 67
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Guide

Post  Bighair on Sun May 15, 2016 6:04 pm

Hi Ken
Got your guide ,thought I had replied to your e-mail , have done now.
Very good indeed.
Sorry for not replying very tardy of me, I will go and sit in the corner Embarassed
Thanks again
Tony
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Bighair

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Re: Falcon 87 new owner

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