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12v conversion

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12v conversion

Post  ScottT on Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:56 pm

I've recently bought an electronic ignition system for my Villiers 30c engine. It has the option of either 12v or 6v, there is a wire coming in and out of the regulator/rectifier and for 6v leave as is, for 12v cut the wire (so say the instructions).

Apart from replacing all my bulbs to 12v, what else will i need to do?
Will the ammeter still work?
What changes will i have to make to the wiring?
Do i need to remove the original rectifier?
Can i change to negative earth, or will many changes have to be made?

Electrics are not my strong point, so any help would be very much appreciated.

Also does anyone have a good copy of the 30C wiring diagram, i have a poor photocopy of the 29C/30C manual and its not very clear.


Click here for the electronic ignition kit
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ScottT

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Conversion

Post  kerabo on Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:32 pm

The chap I done this for wanted to stay with 6v but as you say for 12v you just snip that wire that loops from the regulator rectifier.
I removed the original rectifier and fitted the new one over where this had been mounted. Apart from the output to the amp meter I snipped the rest and taped them up.
You would need to change bulbs, battery, and horn but I know several from my other club that leave the 6v horn on 12v system the old ones seem to stand it otherwise change it. If you have any extras like indicators you would need to change the flasher unit and if you have any battery moniter device you would need to change it.
One thing to remember is you must change the polarity to neg earth and doing this will make the amp meter work the wrong way round so to get it correct you must change the wires side to side.
I like a fuse in any circuit so fitted one just for protection.
The thing that needs care is the timing it's easy but worth getting correct. I checked mine once running with a strobe lamp but it was ok.

If you need to discuss let me know and I will pm my phone number.

Ken
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Re: 12v conversion

Post  ScottT on Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:23 pm

Thank you Ken.

I have a couple of questions, if you have the time to answer them.


In the instructions it says:
Setting timing
The 'FA' mark on the flywheel will align with the timing line (not line B)
Where is line B?
Is there a line A or C as i cant find either.
Where do i line it up?

Also if i line the T mark with the mark on the rotor as in Fig 4, when i check the FA mark that doesn't line up when my piston is 4.36mm BTDC.
If i adjust my FA mark to line up at 4.36mm BTDC then at TDC the T mark doesn't line up
Any ideas? or is this the strange line B?
Which way is the correct way?

The 2 yellow wires from the rotor are to connect to the 2 yellow wires on the Regulator/rectifier, are they meant to go any way round or does it not matter?

In the pictures the plate it is mounted to (fig1) is identical to mine but its upside down, looking at the bike from the right hand side my wires exit to the right not the left as in the picture, i'm hoping this isn't an issue or have i fitted my unit upside down, would that make any difference?
Or should i have mounted my plate upside down so it matches the picture.

I cant get it to run all i get is a backfire after about 5 kicks! Any ideas?
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Electrex

Post  kerabo on Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:29 am

You are correct in that they fitted the backplate 180 deg out and this puts the outlet for the wires facing the carb I don't  know if they ment this but I fitted mine as it came off with the hole to the lower front.
Line B is a bit confusing I assume they mean the other mark but I will try to explain.
Mount the stator on the backplate with equal gap either side of the adjustment screws.
Get your piston at tdc not before and align mark T on the rota with the line on the stator and tighten your rotor to the crank . I found exact tdc was tricky to find with the head on and so used the mark on the crank end pointing exactly through the barrel. At this point and before I fitted the outer flywheel I ran it and used a strobe light to check the timing. This is where the FA mark is used and is btdc you will see the timing move as you rev it using a strobe and at 3000 will be very close to the FA mark at max advance.
Then fit the outer flywheel tight.
The yellow wires work either way round.
It is possible they wanted the backplate that way round as I had to extend my wires and they may have reached if not for that, but it don't matter that much.
Good luck
Ken
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Conversion

Post  kerabo on Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:39 pm

So Scott
Does it run.

Ken
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Re: 12v conversion

Post  ScottT on Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:49 pm

Hi Ken, Ive not had chance yet to do much with it, hopefully i'll be able to spend some time on Sunday.
I did have an issue with the flywheel locking solid once tightened, but spoke to Villiers services and they explained the issue so i've had to take 1.6mm off the spacers holding the lighting coil in place so it fits now.
Issue due to crank float differences between various models as the same system fits so many different engines with slight differences in the crank float.
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Re: 12v conversion

Post  ScottT on Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:55 pm

So i tried again today.
Took the cylinder head off (needed new gasket anyway) out with a dial gauge and set the piston to TDC, lined up the mark on the backplate with the line on the flywheel. So it should be right now, still wont start!

According to the instructions if i set the piston to 4.36mm BTDC the FA mark will line up with the mark on the stator plate, if i do this i then have to move my stator plate a good 1/4inch so it now no longer lines up at TDC and it still wont start.

Pulling my hair out now and seriously thinking about taking the engine out and driving 180miles to Villiers services to get them to set it up for me, any ideas?

My next day off is Thursday so i'll have another go and have a look at the carb to see if there is anything there, but the plug is wet and smells heavily of petrol so im not sure about that!
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Conversion

Post  john87 on Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:56 pm

Sounds like this conversion kit is a piece of junk to be honest....

john...

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Re: 12v conversion

Post  scootsx2 on Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:26 pm

john87 wrote:Sounds like this conversion kit is a piece of junk to be honest....

john...
I'm running the Electrex kit with no problems. Villiers Services retrofitted the kit when they renewed my engine 2 years ago.
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Conversion

Post  kerabo on Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:55 am

ScottT wrote:So i tried again today.
Took the cylinder head off (needed new gasket anyway) out with a dial gauge and set the piston to TDC, lined up the mark on the backplate with the line on the flywheel. So it should be right now, still wont start!

According to the instructions if i set the piston to 4.36mm BTDC the FA mark will line up with the mark on the stator plate, if i do this i then have to move my stator plate a good 1/4inch so it now no longer lines up at TDC and it still wont start.

Pulling my hair out now and seriously thinking about taking the engine out and driving 180miles to Villiers services to get them to set it up for me, any ideas?

My next day off is Thursday so i'll have another go and have a look at the carb to see if there is anything there, but the plug is wet and smells heavily of petrol so im not sure about that!
Hi Scott
It's not easy on here to sort things but you refer to moving the Stator plate. Do you not centralise the stator plate and time it by rotating your flywheel? Then fine adjustment on the stator plate.
Maybe it has other problems. Providing its not much more that timing your welcome to bring your bike here.
It's certainly not junk.
Where are you Scott ?

Ken
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Re: 12v conversion

Post  ScottT on Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:12 pm

Hi Ken,
What it did was fit the stator plate in a central position, put the piston to TDC then fitted the flywheel as close to the marks as possible, then fine tuned by moving the plate, unless i'm doing something really stupid i'm sure it's right.

I'm thinking differently now, if a 2 stroke wont start its either spark, timing or fuel, if all 3 are right it should run.
I'm sure the timing is right, i have a very good spark, i think its time to strip the carb and see how that goes.
Thanks for your offer of help, i'm in Cumbria is that near to you?



John87 it is a very good quality bit of kit, the instructions could do with a bit of work though, but i'm sure the faults i'm getting are down to me or my carb not the kit.
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Conversion

Post  kerabo on Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:21 pm

No Scott
Down in Lincolnshire here. It may be carb but I would be surprised if it didn't even try to run with a carb fault. Did it ever run while you had it?

Ken
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Re: 12v conversion

Post  ScottT on Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:57 pm

When i bought it, the bloke had been trying for a while to start it and it wouldnt, i got it home and it started 3rd kick!
Its not been used for a while, when i have tried starting it its either a 2nd-3rd kick or its been 30mins of kicking and nothing happening. This is why i've gone for this ignition kit.
I've only ridden it about 1/2 mile since i bought it in July and it wasnt right, but its not the oil seals they are spot on both sides, my carb does leak badly though.
Just want to get it sorted so i can get out this year and enjoy it.
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Re: 12v conversion

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