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What carburettor?

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What carburettor?

Post  Swede on Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:14 pm

Hi!
Sweden calling.
Just bought a 1948 Merlin, a very nice bike in good condition, although not running. I want to get another carb because the one fitted is not the original one

Im an "Norton-man" so I don't know much about FB and certainly not what is an original carb on a 1948 Merlin, so please can anybody help me.

FBs are very rare here in Sweden, although I have seen two very old ones. One from 1920 and one from 1921!

(Please excuse my bad english.)

Hope you can see me on my bike here. Well, at least half the picture can be seen.
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What Carburettor

Post  MoscowFlyer on Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:26 pm

Hi, welcome to this forum, I can see you Merlin, and it look very nice. I rode my Francis Barnett down through Sweden in 1999, you have many trees!! The correct carburettor is the Lightweight Single Lever, I will put a picture up when I find one. Mike
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Re: What carburettor?

Post  Swede on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:10 pm

Oh, thank you. Very nice.
Do you think they are difficult to ind? Im used to Norton-parts and they are very easy to find. Suppose Merlin-stuff is mere difficult? E-Bay perhaps?

Yes, we have lots of trees Very Happy and lots of lakes. Did you enjoy your trip?
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What Carburettor

Post  MoscowFlyer on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:44 pm

Yes we enjoyed Sweden very much, we had been to Moscow and on our way home to the UK, so very happy to be getting nearer the end of our journey.

There were three types of carburettors fitted to the Villiers 9D, as I can't see your carburettor or the manifold, it's hard to advise you as you may need the correct manifold too? Could you have a look at this YouTube film and see how it compares with yours, it is fitted with the Lightweight 3/1, and the stub on the manifold measures 1". Mike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5aP8d0XFI4&list=PLE_MMOoDWzvL9KRKfuVK_mxLZCzIHJMm7

Yes these parts are difficult to find.

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Re: What carburettor?

Post  Swede on Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:38 am

Thanks for helping me.

Ive got the manifold, looks original to me although its not made of brass as on some pics ive seen and on the video on youtube. (See below)

So its difficult, hmm... I though it might be easy as engine from Villiers are very common in UK (So I thought). Crying or Very sad

Here two pictures before I "washed it!. After "cleaning the engine and bike" it looks very well and tidy, so I will not restore/paint it. Just fix the engine and electric parts. I will keep the patina/used look.

Maybe it will run well with the carburetor thats been fitted.

Sorry about my english, hope you understand me Very Happy

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Re: What carburettor?

Post  Swede on Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:09 am

checked the manifold and it is less than one ". It measures 22 mm or 0,86 ".
Maybe the manifold is not original?
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What Carburettor

Post  MoscowFlyer on Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:56 am

Hi, yes your bike looks in original condition, I'm all for leaving it like that, they can be of greater interest.

Just seen your latest post, the early 9D's were fitted with the Midget carburettor, the manifold stub for that measured 7/8". Just to let you know there is a carburettor called the middleweight, the manifold for that has a stub which measures 1 1/8". So when looking for your carburetter and manifold, they need to be 1".

Just as I suspected the manifold is the wrong one too. I don't recognize the carburettor, maybe someone else knows what it is.

eBay is a good place to source spare parts, but so is autojumbles and magazines. Mike
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What Carburettor

Post  MoscowFlyer on Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:33 am

There is a website that sells Midget Carburettors and the Lightweight 3/1, but they are for horticultural machinery and may not be suitable for you bike. I can give you the jet and needle sizes if required. http://www.villiersparts.co.uk/service.html

As a matter of interest, here is a picture of a Francis Barnett Snipe produced around the same time as your Merlin, it was fitted with the same engine but smaller Midget carburetter, but as you can see it faces to the rear and not to the side as does yours. Mike


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Re: What carburettor?

Post  Swede on Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:00 pm

THANK YOU!
Yesterday I wrote some "I want to buy-ads" (for swedish mags) and also found some interesting sites, like http://www.villiers.info and asked if they had a carb and inlet manifold to sell to me.

Guess the engine runs best with the 3/1 carb. But if its difficult to find one and if its impossible to find the correct manifold (I guess it is)... one solution could be to fit a Midget carb. The Midget would fit my present manifold size, if I can get it into place without the carb getting to close to the barrel (as you wrote correctly, my manifold face the side and not the rear) .

The present carb, for your info, is a swedish one called Ragge. Never heard of it before.

You wrote "There is a website that sells Midget Carburettors and the Lightweight 3/1, but they are for horticultural machinery and may not be suitable for you bike." Why dont you think their carbs will suitable for my bike?

Once again, thanks for helping! Very Happy
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What Carburettor

Post  MoscowFlyer on Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:24 pm

Hi, I just thought the carburettor for a lawn mowers may have different size jet and needle to that of a motorcycle, if you contact them they will no doubt tell you. Mike
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Re: What carburettor?

Post  Swede on Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:06 pm

Yes, of course, but if thats all thats divides it from a bike-carb, I guess I can find the right jet and needle, and use them or are there more things thats different, the throttle for instance?

The best is of course to get an old carb, and I guess I have time to wait for it on eBay (I have to Nortons to work on). But if I can't find one... do your think its possible to use the lawn mower carb if I get the right needle and jet?

Guess its better to wait, but at the same time Im a bit eager Smile

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What Carburettor

Post  MoscowFlyer on Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:48 am

To be honest, I don't know if it's just the jet and needle, what I do know is the correct jet and needle for each carb.

The Midget, Jet 8, Taper needle 6.

The lightweight type 3/1 Jet 3 Taper needle 3 special.

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Re: What carburettor?

Post  Swede on Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:27 am



Thanks, I will go for an original carb first.

I subscribe two british bike-magazines; Real Classic and The Classic Motorcycle. I will send them ads. The problem is that many persons in UK dont like to sell to "foreigners". Smile

Somehow the problem will be solved.
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What Carburett

Post  MoscowFlyer on Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:12 am

I didn't know that, I've send parts all over the world. I had a thought, if that manifold was made of brass, years ago anything made of brass would end up in the scrap bin, or even alloy come to that, it's amazing what has survived.
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what carb

Post  keith.hodgenia on Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:39 am

I think the problem with selling to "foreigners" is that quite a number of parcels fail to arrive at their destinations resulting in disputes.

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Re: What carburettor?

Post  Swede on Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:43 am

Yes you are right. And the problem with sending the money.
Its easy with paypal, but many people dont have it.

Buying from companies is often very easy. At least thats my experience when buying from eBay, amazon.co.uk, and from "Norton-, BSA- and Triumph-companies".

But Ill try anyhow, by putting and ad in Real Classic and The Classic Motorcycle, because I think its almost impossible to find the manifold and carb here in Sweden.

We have two organisations for "classic/vintege bike-lovers" here, wth thousands of members. When I looked at "mebers list" and what bikes people have, I only found aprox ten Francis Barnett. Two of them very early ones, from 1920 and 1921!

I will retire in 1,5 years time and consider of buying one FB more when I retire.
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Re: What carburettor?

Post  Swede on Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:16 pm

A man from Norway called on the phone and told me, after he had seen a picture in one of my online-ads:
"You probably have a 98 cc engine. Check if there are five or six fins on the barrel. I there are five its a 98 cc engine. If there are six, its 125 cc."

I checked, there are five.

That would explain the manifold, wich he thought came from a swedish bike called Rex (often equipped with Villiers engines).

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98cc 9D engine

Post  piston 197 on Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:37 pm

The 98cc 9D engine was basically a short stroke version of the 122 cc engine , FB did fit it in the Snipe 1938/9, but it was not an option for the Merlin, the engines appear the same outwardly other than the length of the barrel as you have described with the 5 and 6 fin varieties, and the different carburettor sizes and manifold styles
JH
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What Engine

Post  MoscowFlyer on Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:31 pm

A 98cc then, like JH said they fitted them in to the Snipe J49, and it cost 25, the same price as the 125cc Snipe J48. I have always thought, why would anyone want the 98cc in preference to the 125cc at the same price? The answer, the 98cc was made for export to Norway and Holland, in Norway there were tax concessions on engines of limited capacity, and in Holland there were concessions on bikes not exceeding 100 kilograms. Mike

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engine pictured

Post  piston 197 on Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:38 pm

If you look at the engine in the picture above and count the fins ( it has 6) it is a 125 engine, look at the carburettor , not easily visible, but it is on a straight manifold sticking straight out from the engine and looks like an AMAL as used on early bantams, I have a complete 9D engine with exactly that set up and carb. The engine number is a pre-war type XXA engine No , the 98cc I believe was XXB ?, but the number is stamped on the gearbox side casing similar to the post war engines, not like the military ones where it was stamped down the back of the gearbox casting ?
JH
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What Engine

Post  MoscowFlyer on Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:17 pm

It says in the book I have, you can turn the cylinder through 180 degrees and have the inlet port on either side. Mike
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cylinder direction

Post  piston 197 on Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:21 pm

Yes you can and on Wolf and Excelsior bikes the exhaust manifolds faced backwards, the exhausts were straight and hi-level, but what I was saying is the manifold is just a straight stub about 1 1/2" long sticking out at right angles with a small Amal style carb on it and a bantam style choke strangler on it .
JH
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Re: What carburettor?

Post  Swede on Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:05 pm

Very interesting to read your texts! Is it possible to get information about the size and other stuff, from the engines numer?
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engine number identification

Post  piston 197 on Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:10 pm

The letters or spec number on the engines will tell a lot, they will be either on the flat lozenge shaped raised part on the side of the gearbox end cover , or on the back of the gearbox main casing , and depending on the year will either be a sequence of letters followed by numbers i.e. XXX1234
or a spec number like 427/1234. Post your engine number on here and I will tell you what I can.
JH
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Re: What carburettor?

Post  Swede on Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:42 pm

You are so right! My number is 597/29859. No letters.

And on the back of the barrel is a "text". Im 98 % certain its "98 UNIT".

In Sweden we had similar regulations as in Norway and Holland as mentioned above (lightweight bikes had to be under 100 cc). So the 98 barrel can be original. Maybe the manifold and carb too? Maybe it was fitted with a swedish carb because the "import-company" wanted to... well who knows?

I just took new pic of the carb... Ill post them in a minute.
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Re: What carburettor?

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