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Falcon 87 centre stand

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Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  kevb on Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:01 pm

I am progressing steadily with my project, re wired her and used a solid state rectifier. Everything on electrics appears to be working ok nice healthy spark etc. The next job I am looking at is the centre stand spring. The lugs are welded in position one on stand one on frame both in a central position, there was a weedy little spring there obviously not the right one and the stand just trails down. I just don't think the lugs look right for holding up the stand even with a proper spring fitted. As when the stand is in the up position the lugs are horizontally opposite, not vertical as I would imagine them to be. As anyone got a photo of the correct location of lugs/spring etc. Has anyone bought a new spring either for the bike or one that does the job. Thanks
kevb

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Re: Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  banjo boy on Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:38 pm

http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/19/03/08/12/p1080011.jpg


are these pictures of any use
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Falcon *7 centre stand

Post  kevb on Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:19 am

Thanks Laurence

It looks like a form of medieval torture instrument. No wonder the British bike industry went bust. Now I have studied both photos and it looks as if the bent part of the rod attaches to the frame with spacers and a split pin, that spring has no hooks on it so would fit over the rod, then what? what does the other end of the rod attach to? and how. Can you give me dimensions of rod dia, length of rod bent bit and straight bit length of spring in fact a picture of the complete assembly would be great. It seems a very complicated set up compared to a jap bike. Might just fit a universal side stand or weld a lug on frame and bolt on a side stand from a jap bike. I really appreciate your reply Laurence, I would have no problem making the parts to replicate the original set up if I could see the whole set up and grasp how it works.
Cheers kevb

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wrong way round

Post  piston 197 on Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:21 am

Kev, no the other way round, there is a tab with a hole in on the stand, short end goes through this and is secured with a washer and split pin, spring slides onto long section against the welded on washer, there is a swivelling trunion on the frame, this is a round boss with a hole in it for the end of the rod to pass through, this has a plain section and then a thread, this is secured to the frame with a nut that tightens to the plain part allowing it to swivel when the stand is lowered/raised.
The spring is trapped between the trunion and the welded on washer.
the bar can be fabricated from 1/4" bar , or even a 6" nail, the trunion can be turned from a piece of 1/2" bar, drill a hole in it then turn it down to 1/4" for approx. 3/4" leave a plain section near the boss and thread the remainder.
It looks complicated , but works superbly
JH
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Re: Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  banjo boy on Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:13 pm

Thanks John for explaining the set up for Kev I am not that good at explaining my self in area I have little knowledge of Cool
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Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  kevb on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:41 pm

Thanks lads for your help. Not sure I fully understand how it will work, but will make the parts up at work, any ideas on length of rod? and the spring looks quite heavy duty? may be if I start fitting bits to the bike it may hit me between the eyes. There is no swiveling boss on the frame just a lug welded on. That looks correct. So I need to make a boss from approx 1/2" bar around with a hole right through to suit the rod dia turn a section of the boss stepped down to fit into the hole in the lug on the frame, thread that part and secure with a nut. Does the boss need to swivel or is the nut tightened to hold the boss tight?. I hope I have got this right so far? I wish I could see a photo of this arrangement it or even a sketch or drawing would be great. I really would like to make the bits to original spec. I will mock up some bits and see if I can fathom it out. Its a bit like a rubicks cube. The joys of old bike rebuilds.
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spring

Post  piston 197 on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:43 pm

Yes you have it right, the boss does have to swivel , hence the plain part so that nut does not tighten it up, but leaves free to swivel although the nut is tight
JH
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Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  kevb on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:49 pm

John
Been thinking about the swiveling boss, is the hole for the rod to pass through drilled at 90 degrees to the stepped part with threaded end or right through the entire length of the boss?
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hole

Post  piston 197 on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:52 pm

90 degrees through large diameter, imagine a bolt but with round head rather than hex head, hole would be at 90 deg to the threaded portion
JH
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stand

Post  kevb on Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:09 pm

By Jove I think I've got it, I will make the rod over long and get a long compression spring. I can determine exact lengths once I am fitting the parts using trial and error to see what works best. I will make some bits this week and let you know how it goes when assembling on the bike.
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Re: Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  fulmar88 on Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:36 pm

This is from a Falcon 81 frame assembly drawing but I would think it is the same:



Steve.
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spring return mechanism

Post  piston 197 on Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:39 pm

Yes Steve can confirm exactly same type of fitment
JH
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Re: Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  fulmar88 on Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:15 pm

kevb, I've just measured the rod on my bike (Falcon 81) and it is about 4 and 1/4 inches from centre line of the bent bit to the end. When the stand is down the end of the rod is flush with the outer diameter of the swivelling boss so can't be any shorter. If you PM me your email address I'll send you a copy of the frame drawing.

Steve.
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Re: Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  fulmar88 on Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:20 pm

Kevb,
I've scanned the frame drawing I've got and sent it to you with a couple of pictures and a sketch of the stand spring parts. If anybody else wants a copy of the Falcon 81 frame assembly drawing emailing then just drop me a PM with your email address.

Steve.
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Falcon 87 stand saga

Post  kevb on Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:12 pm

Well lads I think we are nearly there. It seems there are some slight differences in the Falcon 81 that Steve has kindly shown me, and Sandy's Falcon 87 (which is what I have.) It appears they have simplified the 87 some what. It looks like the swiveling boss has been removed from the equation and the rod turned around and the lug on the stand is altered. The bits that Laurence shows in his photo (Rod and Spring) looks to be all that's used. I have made all the bits today including the swiveling boss and just need to source a suitable spring. I will have a look at putting it on the bike at the weekend. It may need some slight mods but hopefully will work.
Thanks to all who took the time and trouble to offer advice and help. If I can help you with any small bits i.e. machining, welding or fabricating just ask.
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Sorted

Post  kevb on Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:35 pm

Hello chaps

I made the bits for my Falcon 87 stand, and it cost me a 1 for a strong compression spring from my local engineers merchants. Just note the Falcon 81 and the Falcon 87 have a slightly different set up, the 87 has less parts to it. Cheap fix and works a treat. If any one wants a list of parts required let me know
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Re: Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  fulmar88 on Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:06 am

Just commenting on this thread to bring it to the top to help the chap after Falcon 87 stand / spring info.

Steve.
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Falcon 87 Stand

Post  peter@dunfordconstruction on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:17 am

Hi Fulmar,

I am just about to start reassembling an 87 in the new year and a copy of your full drawing would be immensely helpful . I appreciate there are costs involved and am very happy to pay . Would it be possible for you to let me me have one? I know that you might well not wish to do so but if you could I would be very grateful.

Peter

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Re: Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  fulmar88 on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:25 am

Peter, I can send you a electronic copy of the drawing if you Private Message (PM) me your email address? The drawing is for a Falcon 81 but I would imagine there are a few similariites in the method even if the parts aren't identical.

Steve.
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Falcon 87 Stand

Post  peter@dunfordconstruction on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:29 am

Hi Steve,

Thank you very much my E-mail is peter@dunfordconstruction.co.uk

Regards

Peter

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Re: Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  fulmar88 on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:32 am

On its way to you Peter.

regards,
Steve.
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Falcon 87 stand

Post  colk2004 on Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:01 pm

Thanks for that Fulmar 88 / Steve. I'd not even realised this wasn't going to be a 'normal' tension stand spring job! This type of set up is a thing of mystery to me, though I've sort of worked it out....though also hoping that someone will have a FB at the Carole Nash Winter classic so I can see it in action and take a few photos.

Cheers Colin
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Re: Falcon 87 centre stand

Post  fulmar88 on Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:05 pm

Colin, the clue to the operation is the position of the relative pivots. As the stand rotates down the spring is compressed due to the offset pivot position of the trunnion. Then as it rotates further the compression is released. Thus the stand is held in the raised (riding) position by the need to compress the spring to lower it. You can see this in the frame picture above. This is the Falcon 81 of course but the mechanism operation is similar I believe.

Steve.
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Just in case

Post  colk2004 on Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:17 pm

Someone else comes across the stand spring conundrum and is a bit unsure.



Is what mine looks like now.

Cheers Colin
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Re: Falcon 87 centre stand

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