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D10 villiers FB Merlin - timing - not in time !!

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D10 villiers FB Merlin - timing - not in time !!

Post  Greecegun on Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:45 pm

hi all.. am trying to time up the d10 engine.
have done as per chapter verse etc . top dead center, mark back by the seconds etc , etc - i spent all day Sunday messing about - one minute i have spark ignition then not, so tinker about, set the gaps at widest point 15thou as per the book!  but still nothing, then the spark comes back, and set the points (which are new from villiers) but the old girl doesn't seem to want to play ball...  
ps - the engine is a rebuild so the fly wheel was off . but set it back up as per the book, and marker (arrow) indicating the when the fly wheel at top / the piston is the same ..so think its all set up correct

so as opposed to wrestling with it, thought might be best to turn here and get some sound advice as to where i might be going wrong! after all there is not a lot to go do in setting it up , so I'm obviously missing something ..or is it starved of fuel ? spark plug seems to be getting the fuel (smell and getting a bit damp, but not over wet etc) or is it flooding the engine,  the carb was a new rebuild from villiers. jet etc seems all or - open and closes all ok on the throttle ... so any ideas please to what trick im missing out on ...
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Greecegun

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Timing

Post  piston 197 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:54 am

Villiers mark the original factory setting with the piston at top-dead -centre, so piston at highest point , arrow on flywheel aligned with notch at approx. 2 o clock on ignition back plate ,
This is all well if you have the original flywheel and it has never been changed.
If the flywheel has been changed then the best bet is to check timing manually, to do this take off the head, rotate engine forwards until piston is at top, turn engine backwards until piston is below TDC by about 1/2", now rotate engine forwards and as the piston reaches 5/32"( .156") before highest position , points should just break.
Suggest a magnetic clock ( DTI) to check piston position and a multi meter ( or battery and bulb) to check point break point
If the timing is correct , flywheel is fully magnetised , coil is in good order and condenser is OK you should have a reliable spark at the correct time
JH
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D10 villiers FB Merlin - timing - not in time !!

Post  Greecegun on Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:45 pm

Thank You, for this. i will go back to the basics and start again. as said the fly wheel was off and apart from the engine, but butting it back on the arrow on the wheel was in position at the top and also the piston was at (TDC) but i guess that this does need to be 100% so will check all this again. and then as you said will check that at 2pm on the fly wheel indicated by the arrow and the notch on the back plate the points begin to open. but when you put the flywheel on and tighten it up it seem to tighten up in the correct position automatically ( or was i just lucky ?)
but also im assuming that the gap needs to be set at the widest point ( in the book it says 15thou) so will do this again and be a methodical in the approach.
as said I'm getting a good spark now so the old girls working in producing this,

so if this does not work - would it be the carb ? in ether starvation or over flow of fuel?
if so is there any way of curbing this. i had the carb off and the throttle is doing its job (opening and closing fully when twisting etc) as the plug when taken out ( was a new and correct one) was wet with petrol -(and was smelling right , and not too oily) as (mixed up the right oil petrol mix) so would this be an issue! i would assume not ? as the carb is a simple operation in its self and not a lot to go wrong !!.

thank you for your help.. hers to another Saturday of determination
i will report the joys hopefully !!
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arrow at the top ??

Post  piston 197 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:52 pm

You say the arrow was at the top and piston was at TDC ???
With the piston at TDC the Arrow should align with the cut out in the back plate which is at approx. 2,o,clock, not at the top , maybe you know what you mean't and I read it wrong ??
JH
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the arrow not in line

Post  Greecegun on Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:14 pm

Hi .. you right the arrow is the wrong place -- on the fly wheel its sat top and the piston is at TDC,, so i guess i need to get this put right and sorted.. then hopefully i can progress from there ...
i presume that by undoing the fly wheel (this will then free wheel ) then once the piston is in TDC then arrow should be pointing and inline with the notch on the back plate ..

here we go again... thank you
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Greecegun

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timing

Post  piston 197 on Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:59 pm

Yes that will be your problem ! undo the central flywheel nut, it will then go tight, undo again and it will extract itself from the taper, set points at 15 thou, set piston at top dead centre, rotate flywheel without moving piston until arrow aligns with notch on back plate, tighten flywheel nut by hand until hand tight, tap the flywheel onto the taper, then fully tighten . Rotate flywheel to make sure nothing has moved and arrow aligns when piston is at TDC
JH
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timing back !

Post  Greecegun on Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:04 pm

with the help of my neighbor, it was cracked .. took the head off to measure the exact timing . got the points sorted at breaking point in conjunction with the markers on the fly wheel and piston etc.
after a few goes, and finding a faulty HT lead - then all good and running ..

so back on the road soon ..
thank you for your help..
J
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Re: D10 villiers FB Merlin - timing - not in time !!

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